Season Kickoff And The Big Question

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello and welcome back to season three of That Martech Girl, the podcast where Martech meets culture, the business podcast with personality. I'm your host, Rachel Gray, and we have been talking a lot about AI and all of the different technologies that are transforming modern marketing in today's new world. However, buying this technology is only half of the battle. You really need to implement this and you need to do this with the right people, with the right partnerships, and the right strategy. So today we have an expert on these partnerships who's going to be joining us. Her name is Ashley Mullings Davis. She is no stranger to the podcast and has been on in the last season. She's a global partner manager for IBM, and she has a wealth of knowledge on this specific topic. What we're going to be talking about today is what makes a successful technology ecosystem really work. And why do partnerships more than ever before matter now in this new age of AI? And how exactly can we take big ideas and move them into execution? Because honestly, at the end of the day, innovation is only as powerful as your ability to bring it to life. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Hey Ashley, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I'm doing well, Rachel. How are you today?

SPEAKER_03 1:35

I'm doing so well. Thank you so much for joining me again for that Martech Girl season three. You've been on last season. Was you finished twice already, or this is your second time?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

This will be my second.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Okay, okay. Yeah, thank you so much. Um, you were a big hit last last year, so we're happy to have you back on. Amazing. Yeah, so I know it's been a year since we last talked. Um, I know that you're still at IBM. Can you just give us a view of where you've been, what you've been doing, just catch us up on

Alignment As The First AI Step

SPEAKER_03 2:10

life?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yeah, so I think there's actually been like a significant change since the last time that we spoke. Um, still at IBM, but before I was working in the marketing automation space, which um more embedded in the technology, I would say, for sure. Um, now I am in global partner activation, so I'm ensuring that all of the partners for IBM have everything that they need to be successful when it's when they're connecting with our clients or even just understanding our technology, our objectives, and everything. Um, being an ecosystem/slash the partner marketing world is brand new for me this month. Actually, it makes exactly one year since I've been in this role. Um, but it's been really exciting, really fun, and um I'm excited to see how I can grow more in this space as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Well, congratulations on all your success at IBM. You've like definitely climbed the ladder and I've seen that career growth. So I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yes. Um, so I I wanted to preface our conversation just around, you know, some of the themes of this season. I think that my clients at Optimizely are just asking a lot of questions around the real life implementation of AI and like how can we actually make a pilot, how can we actually make a program that is centered around AI strategy, etc. And so now that you have like this experience and partnerships, which I think is a big piece of the conversation, I wanted to kind of have a conversation around now that you're in the weeds, what exactly would you say, like, what does it take to have an AI-powered marketing engine that includes all of the different pieces, the partners, the technologies, the teams, et cetera?

SPEAKER_02 4:06

I would say that it definitely takes the entire organization being on the same page. And so alignment is definitely number one. Um, I will say for our organization specifically, we all have one objective that we're working towards, and that is growth within a specific area of the business. And um matter what role you have, that is your North Star. And so when it comes to the implementation of how we utilize AI in our either day-to-day or even for our clients, we're thinking of it from that objective as well. So having that alignment definitely makes it a lot easier for everyone to adopt. I think sometimes what I've seen in the past is there's just a usage requirement versus how will this usage help me hit the objective? And so with some of the initiatives that we've taken, I'll give one example. There's an AI acceleration committee that I'm a part of. And what that committee does is look across the entire organization for all the different use cases that we have for AI, and we assess does this use case align to the objective? If it does, how do we scale it and make sure that it's easier for teams to use, leverage, and adopt it? So I think number one answer is alignment, but then two, ease of adoption, which then marries perfectly with the alignment piece as well.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

I completely agree, and I'm seeing the same thing because I feel like there is this apprehension, well, not apprehension, this um pressure across organizations where it's just like use AI, use AI, use AI. And it's like, but how are you using it? You know, and it's it's not really laddering up to any type of strategy or any type of use case, or it's not propelling the organization forward. It's just people using it on a one-off basis. And to me, that is not helping growth in any way, shape, or form. Like if you're not actually using it with an objective and using it in concert with your other teammates, etc., then what is the point, right? That's that's my thought.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

No, that's exactly right. And I think the AI Acceleration Committee that we formed has been super helpful with that. We're making sure that it's not just operating in a silo or you're just talking a copilot or, you know, whatever um interface it is that you're

Making Adoption Easy And Fun

SPEAKER_02 6:34

using. And while we do have a wide variety of AI um technology available to us, one other thing that we've done that I think has been really helpful is doing a um, it's kind of like a hackathon, but it's more one day that was dedicated to leveraging AI in some capacity to solve a specific business objective. And the different projects and innovative ideas that everyone came up with that all still align to the overall like business objective was really amazing to see. So I think also making it fun helps a lot.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

That's important. Um, so I know you mentioned having multiple different tools and products that you're using currently.

Why Multiple AI Tools Exist

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Can you tell me why you guys didn't just choose just one? Um, is it difficult to accomplish everything you're trying to accomplish with just one tool, or is there just like a different strategy behind thinking there?

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Uh a different strategy. So we have internal um tools that we use. Um, so one that is pretty big on the market for us right now is IBM Bob. That's our um, I'm gonna say like primary AI tool that we're heavily pushing in the market. Um, and it's basically your coding assistant, an agent builder. It does any and everything that you can ask for. Um, but it is more geared towards like the developer audience. So we have that piece, but if you're not developer forward, then of course we have our partnership with Microsoft. So we have Copilot, we have um we just launched Adobe AI. So like for our marketing tool suite and stack, we're leveraging that as well. So it's all just different use cases, and depending on the user or the end output that they're looking for, um it determines which tool you use. But I will say we are getting to a point where all the tools are starting to talk to each other a little bit more. Um, so the infrastructure has been there, making all the data connections is um something that is in progress to make sure that everything kind of syncs seamlessly so you don't feel like you're jumping from tool to tool. But the tool that you use really depends on what your end output or outcome is meant to be.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

That leads me to my next question, was more around the partnerships and aspect, and like how are you thinking about like connecting those tools? Um, are you thinking of agentic workflows throughout the entirety of the organization? Like, how how is that being thought about?

Tool Cleanup And Data Foundations

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, um, so there is a lot of discussions and conversations, and I'll be honest, what the final outcome is gonna be, that part I'm not fully clear on, just because we have so many partnerships and so many different facets to consider. But um with the I'll say for internally, it first started with doing an audit of everything that we have, and we had a lot of tools, a lot of different platforms and a lot of partnerships. So there's been a cleanup that has happened significantly, and I think that cleanup has definitely made things a lot more streamlined and giving us a better direction. But when I look at the future and going back to like the data architecture type of work that is being done, um we're talking about a legacy company that's been around for a hundred plus years. So there's a lot of data to work through. Um, but even as we're working with our clients, we say the same thing. If your data is clean, if your data has the right structure and everything, then the implementation is 10 times easier. So we're doing that exercise ourselves as client zero. Um so once that work is done, I think then the future paths will be a little bit clearer as far as like how we can bridge all of these tools together. But now that we have less tools and we're doing the optimization for our data, the possibilities will be endless on what we can do.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

I love that. Um, I want to get into your work with partnerships and just dive a little bit deeper into that.

Partnership Announcements Versus Activation

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Can you talk to me about like just the difference between um announcing a strategic partnership? I feel like I go on LinkedIn every day, and it's like, yeah, we have a strategic partnership with this person and with that person. But um what's the difference between that and actual activation of that partnership?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

So it's multi-layered. Um, I will say we have different tiers for our partners. We have our, I'm gonna call them, I don't say everyday partners because that makes them seem less important, but they are very important to us. But our partners that do, I'm gonna say like our day-to-day, they're on the ground with us doing the work to either source or um win new clients. And then we have our big strategic partnerships that you'll see all over, like the Adobe's and the Microsoft's and the you know, big 10, I would say, that we have. Um, with those partnerships, it really comes down to how are we working with clients and exactly what is the nature of the partnership. So for some, it's we're collaborating on the technology and building something jointly together, and with others, it's purely from like a sales perspective. And so the activation strategy for each is going to be very different. And of course, we're also talking about the size and the scale of the partnership. So with the partners that I specifically focus on, those are the partners that are more on the ground, focus more on sales. Um, for those, is ensuring that they have the right enablement. So do they have the knowledge, skills, and resources and understanding of our products? And then do they understand our overall partner program? Do they are they needing the steps for the onboarding? Are they going through the different um tiers and motions and incentives and programs that we have? If they have that, then we know they're moving towards our number one objective, which is generating pipeline and revenue growth for the business. For the bigger strategic partners, um, they have a little bit more flexibility since they are, you know, either, like I said, building technology with us or there's like a deeper collaboration. So it looks a little bit differently, but at least for the partners in the scale that I work on, um, it's more ensuring that they have the resources, skills, and guidance to keep moving forward to that revenue growth that we hope to achieve.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Um, that's

Clear Handoffs And Partner Matching

SPEAKER_03 13:21

interesting. I I work with partners a lot on my end too, and I think that especially in this new era when everything is moving so quickly, um, and we each have like some level of expertise, there's always this question of okay, so who is going to communicate with the client? Who's going to like deliver the final outcome? Like, how are we going to work together? Do you see that at all? Like in that accelerated, like frantic mess at this point.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yes. Um, and I will say to kind of combat that a little bit, we did implement some initiatives where the handoff point is very clear. So once we, like, for example, if one of our internal sellers are already working a lead and they realize, like, okay, this is some, like, there's a big opportunity here. I need help. There's like a very clearly defined step of okay, pass it to one of our partners. Our partners will then take over. And then from that point on, the partner is the, I'm gonna say full owner, um, still in collaboration with our internal sales team, but um, we've clearly defined the points at which you have to make that decision. And so I think that has helped with reducing that the potential to drop the ball, especially when you are moving very fast. Um, and we've seen good success with that. And also we have an automated engine that we recently built that helps to determine which partner is the best fit for the potential opportunity. And so the algorithm kind of determines the top partners, and then from there, the seller already knows, like, okay, if I do want to work with a partner on this, here's who I could pass it to, or here's who I can collaborate with. So we took some of the guesswork out.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

That's really cool. I really like that. I'm gonna recommend that. Um, yeah, I think the the other point I had was just like now that everything is so complex, how are you measuring like the outcome of these partnerships? Right. And to say, hey, this has worked in this instance, let's use this partner again. How's that working?

Scoring Partners With A Performance Framework

SPEAKER_02 15:40

So there is um a framework that we built, and essentially it scores and measures our partners based on their performance. And so it kind of creates like a ranking system almost, but we don't use it from like a this is good, this is bad, it's more directional, but it helps us determine which partners do we continue to prioritize and invest in moving forward. And so, based on us measuring the key performance um indicators for those partners, then um it has significantly reduced the amount of partners that we might be wasting our resources or time or anything on. Because for a company our size, we do get new partners that maybe they're being opportunistic, maybe they only are bringing in like one deal, or we only hear from them once and then never hear from them again. So it helps us kind of like filter through the noise a bit. And so with that framework, which we launched at the top of this year, we have seen like a significant improvement in the partners that we're investing in and even how they're operating and they're working. So next year we do plan to expand it a lot more. Um, and it's something that it wasn't just like a partner marketing organization decision. Like this is across the business that we sat down together and said, like, hey, these are the you know, things that we want to look for for the really um good partners, or these are the performance that we're expecting them to hit and meet. And so this is an alignment across the business to say, what does a good partner look like? And let's make sure that if we're saying this is a good partner, this is where we're gonna spend our time and resources. And that's been positive so far.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

I really like that approach because I think, especially in this era, um, a lot of companies will pop up and then in three or four years, I think they will be gone or they will be swallowed by larger companies. Like, so it's hard to know, like everybody's like, oh yes, we're we're doing AI transformation, we're doing this to help businesses in in this new era. But it's like which ones are gonna survive and which ones are gonna fall. Yeah. So exactly. That's always my question is which ones do I trust?

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, we're letting the performance um be the driver

Leading Through Influence In A Global Role

SPEAKER_02 18:09

for that for us.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Love that. Um, just getting back to your extensive career at IBM. I think that you said that first you were in marketing automation. That's when we talked last year. And of course, now you're in partnerships, and I know there was a lot of um, you know, growth in between that and before then. If you guys want to hear that, you can listen to her first episode. She goes into detail on that. But my question is just in this new uh partnerships role, I know that a lot of it isn't necessarily managing these partners or leading or um leading these partners, but it's more influencing the outcome. How are you navigating that and how are you kind of leaning on your past expertise in order to show up well in this new role?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah. Um, I will say in the beginning, there was a lot of imposter syndrome, just being fully transparent, being in a space that I had never been in before. Um, but one thing that I've noticed is a lot of the foundational elements that I was using before across marketing automation, across like marketing campaigns and marketing strategy, they all translate into what I'm doing today. Um, so what I'm looking at partner activation, it's truly a journey. It's how do we get a newly registered or contracted partner to the point of first revenue generation or pipeline generation? And there are steps that they have to take in between that. So a lot of it is diagnosing at what part of the journey is something needing to be optimized or improved, or maybe we're seeing an area of opportunity that we need to expand further. So it's a lot of that and being very data-driven, of course, in this world, you have to be. And also being open to different ways of working. So, with being a global company and me being in a global role, I do work across geography. So I connect with our current point parts in Latin America, AMEA, Asia Pacific, all around the world. And one thing that I've learned is sometimes being in a global role, you think, oh, I know what's best, and everyone has to follow what guidance or strategy I set. But the reality is the my teammates that are in the geos or like specifically in certain countries, they have a better understanding of what's happening there for their market, for their area. So leaning on their expertise and then bringing that into that global strategy has been like the number one thing that I think has helped me propel forward faster because I'm able to learn directly from those that are closest to the work and everything that we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

So you would say not saying and going in and saying, hey, I know it's best, but first taking the approach of listening and understanding because it's their market they would know best.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

My final question has to do with advice you would give to those who are in a role like yourself or even in marketing automation that you used to be in. What would you say that are the main skills that need to be developed in this new era that we are now in, that is moving at the speed of light? Um what are you doing and what what advice would you give?

Skills For The New AI Era

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Uh, the advice that I would give is to stay curious.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

I think as we've seen in this new world, is that something is changing or being announced or revealing itself every single day. So the more that you stay curious, the more that you'll be open to all the different changes and don't get stuck in, oh well, I was doing this yesterday, so that's the thing that I have to do for the next week, two weeks, month, etc. Um, so I think to go with the curiosity is adaptability. And I think we've all seen that that is necessary with all the changes that have been happening. Um, but if I had to give any other advice for anyone within marketing automation or partner activation, it would be follow the data. It's especially in today's world, I think it's very easy to have like the qualitative information, especially with all the news cycles and everything that you see on social media, that things are constantly changing. But find the numbers and find the data and then use that to make your decisions. Um, one thing that I've noticed throughout my career is the more data-driven that I've been, or the more of a stronger data approach that I can take with things, that's where we've had the biggest opportunities for growth, or really unlocked something that most people didn't even consider. Um, so it's very easy to say, you know, you have a thought or inclination on something, but if you can have the data to support it, that'll take you 10 times further and also build a lot more trust with whoever you're working with.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

So follow the data and stay curious. That is your advice. Thank you so much, Ashley. We really appreciate you coming on for this season of That Martech Girl. Um, and we hope to have you on the next time.

Closing And How To Support

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of That Martech Girl. And a huge thank you to Ashley for joining me and sharing her perspective on the power of partnerships and what it really takes to build an AI-powered marketing engine in today's new world. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure you're following us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Also, don't forget to share this episode with someone who's navigating the ever-evolving world of marketing technology. Until next time, I'm Rachel Gray, and this is that Martech Girl. Have a wonderful rest of your week. Bye-bye.