SPEAKER_01: 0:02

Hello and welcome back to episode 10 of That Martech Girl, the podcast where Martech meets culture, the business podcast with personality. My name is Rachel Gray, and today is our final episode of season two. Of course, I had to end things off on a great note, you guys. So today I'm joined by Jorge Tittinger, who has a 35-year-long career in tech. And part of his career, he has actually served as president and CEO of SGI. In addition to that, he has served as a chairman on multiple boards in the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. So he's really, really been around and seen change and really has had an impact on change. But the part of his career that has really resonated with me the most is his work with DEI. He's actually co-authored two books. The first is Differences That Make a Difference, and the second one is The Real ROI Return on Inclusion. I'm really fascinated by these books and happy to dig into that in today's episode. I actually met Jorge during a lecture that he did at Vanderbilt, and that was a lecture that actually inspired me to produce episode eight of That Martech Girl. That is an episode where we discuss how we can learn from past economic disruptions and really apply those learnings to the AI revolution today. So he's going to touch on that a little bit today, but really it's just an amazing discussion, and I can't wait for you to hear it. But before we dive in, I do want to say thank you so much for cheering me on this season. I've seen your support, it has been noticed, and it is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. Now let's get into today's episode. Good morning, Jorge. Thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 2:23

I met you because you were lecturing at Vanderbilt University in one of my classes. And we had such a fascinating discussion that I decided I have to get you on that Martech Girl. And he was gracious enough to come on. So really thankful to have you here. I do want to start with your background. I think you have a fascinating background. If you could just clue us into just your journey, I know you've done a lot in sports, a lot in engineering, and you've become an executive. So just bring us through that journey.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

Sure. You know, it's funny. I actually call it the crooked path of my career when I talk about this, because like you said, I um never intended to be a professional athlete, but it it so happened. You know, I played soccer in college, then got recruited to play professionally, and then even played for the US indoor national team. But what I really was drawn to since childhood was solving complex problems. So that led me to become an engineer. Um, and over time I realized that the biggest challenges were not technical, but they were human. So how teams align, how culture shapes, performance, etc. And a lot of those lessons were actually learned from the world of sports. Um, but that shift, that realization led me from an engineering career into executive roles and eventually serving on boards where I try to help others navigate the same transitions that I went through. So yeah, it's uh not a not your straight, you know, up into the right path, but you know, had a little a few turns here and there. So it's it's been fun. It's been a fun career and it's still going.

SPEAKER_01: 4:19

Those I find that those careers kind of make the best stories, though, right? It's like you didn't have it planned at first, it kind of just happened. And I think it was it's kind of meant to happen. That resonates with me so much because I'm coming from biology and chemistry, and now I'm at Vanderbilt MBA program. So um I agree and I I resonate with that. Um, you've led a lot of digital transformation efforts, and we talked about that a little bit in class. Can you just clue us into like the decision-making aspects of that, how you grew that skill set and how that resonates today in the advice you give to leaders?

SPEAKER_00: 5:01

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. And the you know, there's a number of different approaches to making decisions, and the challenge with you know technology disrupting the way things are is that the disruption happens quickly. And so the it's very seldom that people have the luxury of being able to take a long, long time to have every T crossed and every I dotted before making a decision. So I think one of the key traits of people who've done well in transitions, uh, especially driven by technology changes, is the ability to make decisions quickly and and get you know as much data as you can, but actually be able to make decisions uh quickly and and use your broader knowledge and intuition to make that decision. And what I always also say is have the courage to know that if your decision was wrong, you need to change quickly, right? And so it's uh you know, I ideally fast to succeed or fast to fail, so you can actually make a change. To me, also, the those who have been successful in in these changes and in these transitions are making decisions with empathy, right? Always balancing data with values and the purpose of where the company uh what the company's north star is. So you all you won't have perfect information, but you can have a clear path and a clear direction.

SPEAKER_01: 6:43

Okay, so make decisions, don't be afraid to make decisions quickly. But if you make the wrong decision, you have to pivot and pivot quickly, and then also have elements of empathy in that decision-making process. I really agree with that because I think maybe with a lot of companies, that's the missing link. And I think that's a good transition to the next topics I wanted to talk through, and that those have to do with diversity, equity, and inclusion. Um, you've done a lot with that throughout your career. And I was telling you prior to the interview, that really resonated with me because being a woman of color in tech, you know, there is challenges that I have to um overcome that others may not have. Um, and just being able to navigate business decisions, et cetera, it's different for me, right? So seeing that, I was like, I really want to talk through just, you know, what you've learned um in the industry about DEI, why that's important to you, and and the work you've done around that.

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

Sure. So, you know, why DEI? Um, and it really, you know, like like you, I'm I'm Latino, right? I was one of the very few Latinos in in CEOs in tech, actually in all public companies for a while. And there's there's more now. Um but it it was uh you know for me it really started from experience, right? I actually grew up in a in a family where um the gender distinction was almost reverse, right? My mother was a medical doctor. Um, you know, she is still a medical doctor, she's she's almost 93 and she doesn't practice anymore, so that's a good thing actually. Um but you know, my dad was a successful professional businessman, but from a um, you know, from a prestige accomplishment, if you will, you know, being a medical doctor, especially in South America at her age, was something unheard of. So I had never had this concept of uh gender uh disparity, you know, literally until I came to the United States to go to college. You know, I studied electrical engineering and philosophy in my undergraduate degree, and I was shocked at how few women were in my double E uh courses, right? Uh plenty in the philosophy side, but then double E, not many. And I was wondering why is this, right? And uh oh, by the way, the few that were in the course were amongst the top students in in the whole class. Like you, you know, I I uh I was one of the few, right? Um the um and my experience in sports had shown me that it was all really about performance, it had nothing to do with color. Of course, I played soccer, you know, in a men's team, so that there was no gender diversity there. But I mean it didn't matter if you what what ethnicity you were, you know, were you tall or short, and none of that mattered. What mattered was your performance. And you know, before going to Stanford, I went to uh I finished my my high school and did my first year of college equivalent in a school that where there were only that it was only two years, and it was only a hundred kids per year, so a total of 200 from 75 different countries, right? And it was such an eye-opening experience, and it was so clear to me that if you had diversity of thought, if you had diversity of experience, you simply just got to better decisions, better outcomes, you could innovate faster. So, with that background, it became a uh personal mission for me to actually go drive diversity. I didn't even I didn't even have a name for it, really, right? I mean, it was just how do we get uh broader experiences into the team so we can actually perform better. Um, you know, that had always been part of the way I led, the way I thought, and I had an opportunity to write a book on DEI with a uh millennial compatriot of mine. And I joke, I said, you know, I have gray hair because I spent a year and a half writing a book with a millennial. Um, but you know, he was brilliant, and we wanted to write something that we both could have uh a viewpoint that might be different, right? And so me being a baby boomer and him a millennial that that led to this book on diversity, and we interviewed about 140 or so executives across multiple industries, actually, some people from outside the US, and it became really clear to us that it really wasn't about diversity, it was about inclusion. But of course, you have to have diversity to include somebody, right? So diversity was kind of the entry to producing this uh uh environment where people truly felt included and that they could belong, um, so that the performance was enhanced. Um we let we we leveraged a lot of data that we you know we didn't necessarily produce ourselves, but it was you know studies from McKinsey, from Stanford, from other entities that constantly were showing that organizations that had well-established diversity and inclusion programs outperformed from a bottom line performance those that didn't by significant numbers, right? 30% plus. So it wasn't like a 3% improvement. You you could that you could say, well, that's a you know, error band. It it really was very significant. And some of the quotes that we got, you we got we have like 130 quotes in in the in the book. Some of the quotes were so revealing uh that you go, well, yeah, this makes a lot of sense. So uh it's you know, the the book is called Differences That Make a Difference, the the first book. And it became a call to action, and and part of the conclusion we drew was even if you as a leader don't think this is the right thing to do, it's such the smart thing to do, given the difference in results. Um, so uh, you know, and and by the way, it it really was about diversity, equity, and inclusion from the perspective of the spirit of it, not check the box or you know, use it to fill a quota. I mean, that uh that I don't agree with. Um, so but it, you know, the companies that really believed in it experience the same kind of improvement and and results. You know, one of my favorite quotes is from a uh serial entrepreneur who's been very successful in Silicon Valley, and he said, Why is Silicon Valley the most innovative place in the world? And his the answer is because we have people from 130 countries who all come to actually bring their best to the to their to their work. Um somebody said, you know, diversity is being invited to the dance, inclusion is being asked to dance.

SPEAKER_01: 14:45

I was gonna ask you that same question around inclusion, because for myself, I mean, you know, I've been a part of multiple organizations where diversity is something that's shouted from the rooftops, but it's a whole different ball game for diversity to happen and then for inclusion to happen. And it's a fight that I feel like I have to go in every day and fight to be included, right? So um what I found is instead of looking at it as a negative, I see it as my superpower because I have an era of resilience that I see that my peers don't always have, right? Because I've I've been through the mud, right? I've been able to overcome so much to get where I am. But for you, in your case, is there any advice that you perhaps have to others who are like you and me who perhaps are there in organizations with diversity, but they're trying to be included?

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

Yeah. So, you know, my my conclusion in all of this is it it, you know, it is a it's a cultural issue, right? It needs to be embedded into the culture of the company. And you know, I use the words, you know, it needs to be built into the operating system of the company, you know, and it starts at the top, right? So, like any other cultural element in an organization, it needs to start at the top, and um, otherwise it becomes a to-do list item, right? Um, and it needs to encompass every aspect of the human uh capital elements in the company. You know, how do you hire? How do you promote? What metrics do you look at? Um, how are meetings run? What language do you use or not use? I mean, all of that needs to start becoming inclusive. Um and therefore, it is very purposeful. You know, you have to it takes action to be inclusive. Right? It doesn't just happen. So the organization has to take action, they have to um you know purposely drive for these things to actually happen. Um the you know grassroots elements on on driving this at a corporate level um can be successful, but they take a tremendous amount of effort, and until the leadership really makes it their priority, it's very difficult. Um but my recommendation would be don't don't stop, right? But uh you need to get to the to the the leaders in the company. Um you know get there with with with examples, with data, with um, you know. Take notes from that book. There's a lot of data in that book, right? Um don't necessarily take the book, but take notes from that book. Uh or or examples from within the company that where you know there are uh examples of diverse and inclusive teams and their performance and the satisfaction of employees and the engagement, uh, et cetera, et cetera. Um it is a it's a fight fight worth fighting. I think the results are unequivocally better if you do have that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:22

I appreciate that insight. I do want to turn the conversation to a topic that we're we've been talking about in class every single day. You go on LinkedIn, you go on Google, you see AI, right? Um, and we were talking about that um in in the Vanderbilt class where you taught. And we were just talking about how the past eras of disruption can give us lessons that we can learn and apply to today's AI revolution. Can you talk just very briefly about that and um advice that you would give to executives today?

SPEAKER_00: 19:05

Yeah, absolutely. And and um like I mentioned, you know, when we had that lecture, you know, AI has been around for a long time, right? It actually started in 1962. What is new is generative AI, and it's newer, obviously, and and we finally have enough compute power to actually run the large language models that uh generative AI uses that can process trillions and trillions of parameters at once, right? But you know, if I'm looking for parallels with tech shifts in the past, um almost every disruption starts with fear and ends with empowerment. And I think we're gonna see the same thing with AI. Um I think we'll overestimate the short-term impact and underestimate the long-term transformation. And for me, the main difference with AI is the speed at which it's transforming things, right? Um, other transformation of the internet, cloud computing, etc., were fast for their time, but compared to what we're seeing now, you know, they were you know moving like slugs, right? Compared to um, and so the to me, one of the main lessons is and that I recommend to people is adapt early, but stay human. You know, technology changes fast, people don't. So those who listen, learn, and evolve their leadership style will thrive through every way. And in AI, you know, I would use it to remove to and to help humans. I I've I think I may have mentioned I don't call it artificial intelligence anymore, I call it augmented intelligence because I really see it as human assist. Uh, use it to remove friction, not connection. So let it handle routine stuff so the leaders can focus on creativity, mentorship, judgment, things that the machine cannot replicate. But um it's uh it it is changing the world, it's completely changing the way we interact with computers, you know, it's probably one of the most democratizing technologies that has ever come up, you know, before and and I used to use this very silly example of somebody trying to create a keto diet, right? And in the past, you needed you know to be a data scientist to query all kinds of databases, etc. It will take you you know hours and hours and hours, and you know, with with AI, you can do it in three minutes, right? Not even depends on how how quickly you come up with your prompts, but that ability for anybody to actually who has access to a computer and can think about uh using this not like Google, it's not you know, many people unfortunately are using uh GPTs as as for search, right? Instead of really embedding it into the processes of the company or or their own work or whatnot to actually truly help um you know take away cumbersome repetitive work and so they can focus on something bigger. Uh that's I think the the recommendation. I think it's super important for people to be conversant in AI now. I mean, the um you know, I was at a presentation on AI that somebody in in the audience asked me, well, yes, me, they said to me, you know, I'm really worried about AI replacing my job.

SPEAKER_01: 22:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

And I said, you you know, AI, don't worry about AI replacing your job. Worry about the person who really knows AI replacing their job, right? So you need to get re-educated, you know, those who are digital natives, um it's easier, right? Understand, you know, how it works, not at a not at a technical level, you don't need to be able to program LLMs, but you know, how do you actually take advantage of it, how do you use it, and um and then how do you best apply it to actually make what you're doing easier, faster, better, broader. I think that's what we'll see, and the people who embrace that will be successful. So, but it is about you know how do you truly weave it into the fabric of the company.

SPEAKER_01: 23:52

Right. So thank you so much for that insight. What I'm hearing is we absolutely need to learn how to use AI in prompting agentic workflows, et cetera, to take away cumbersome tasks, but still we need to have the human element of working together of organizations of culture because that's how we have DEI. That's how we have um these really important pieces of the fabric that cause us to be where we are today. So I really want to say thank you for your time here today on That Martech Girl. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00: 24:35

Thanks for the opportunity. I really enjoyed it. And Rachel, it was great to meet you and thank you, everybody. Hope you guys enjoy the conversation. Take care.

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of That Martech Girl. Please don't forget to follow us on whatever streaming platform that you're listening to this episode on, and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at ThatMar Tech Girl. Thank you again. Your support this season has been noticed and is greatly appreciated. Have a wonderful rest of your week. Bye bye.